"The only trouble is, she's a little too affectionate sometimes. She's very emotional, for a child. She really is." (68, Holden on his little sister Phoebe).
Waaaaiiiit a moment, Holden. You're accusing your little sister of being too affectionate, too emotional for her age? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that your relationship with Jane Gallagher was more on the emotional side.
As we talked in class, it became quite clear that Holden was getting a bit uncomfortable with Stradlater going out with Jane. Holden knows Stradlater's tricks; Stradlater's all about the physical relationship and doesn't seem to understand the appeal of anything else. Holden has an uneasy feeling when he imagines Stradlater and Jane; he's seen what Stradlater does to girls on dates. Mr Mitchell even brought up the idea of date rape. However you see this situation, there is a definite difference between Holden and Stradlater. Stradlater focuses on the physical aspects of a relationship, and Holden seems to be much more interested in the emotion.
And he seems to go into great detail about how un-physical his relationship with Jane was. (keep in mind he's a pre-teen, sort of the same age as Phoebe).
And he seems to go into great detail about how un-physical his relationship with Jane was. (keep in mind he's a pre-teen, sort of the same age as Phoebe).
"Jane was different. We'd get into a goddam movie or something, and right away we'd start holding hands, and we wouldn't quit till the movie was over. And without changing the position or making a big deal out of it. You never even worried, with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were." (79).
Yeah, holding hands may be literally physical, but if you think about it, it's actually kind of more emotional. Especially when he mentions that all that really matters is that the hand holding made him happy. This seems pretty mushy emotional to me. As we discussed in class today, it seems like an actual loving relationship; Holden really cares for Jane in a strong emotional sense.
So why's Holden beating up on his sister for being "too affectionate"? it seems a bit odd... he himself is guilty of being emotional and even a bit clingy. What's wrong with showing a lil emotion, huh Holden?
So why's Holden beating up on his sister for being "too affectionate"? it seems a bit odd... he himself is guilty of being emotional and even a bit clingy. What's wrong with showing a lil emotion, huh Holden?
I think that this inconsistency in Holden's opinions of people highlights just how hypocritical he is. He will complain about a character trait in someone like Ackley, but will do the same thing in the next scene.
ReplyDeleteWe've seen that Holden is definitely a hypocrite. I think this comment about affection is another good example! Maybe that's one of the reasons why Holden is so lonely... he keeps doing these things that he doesn't even realize.
ReplyDeleteI read his ragging on Phoebe's emotional side as a sort of projection of his feelings about his own affection. Like, he's kind of shy about his own feelings so he tells himself and the reader that he doesn't like seeing how emotional Phoebe is. IDK, that's my personal reading!! Really interesting point :-)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Holden certainly seems hypocritical in his description of his sister, as well as other characters we see. Maybe he doesn't understand what is going through his head, or maybe he just doesn't want to recognize it, but Holden seems to be close to everything he criticizes others for. I wonder when he'll realize it.
ReplyDeleteSo I think this is an interesting post, and in addition to the things you've already said about Holden's comment on Phoebe, I have two more ideas. First, I don't totally read his statement that Phoebe is "too emotional" and "too affectionate" as a legitimate criticism. I see it more as an affectionate "isn't my kid sister cute? She's just crazy about me." Second, if he does mean the statement seriously, maybe its a defense mechanism. He's still hurting bad over Allie's death, so he doesn't want to get too close to his other younger sibling.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen Holden many times so far being a hypocrite, and yet we don't hate him for it. At least, I don't. He seems to have that certain personality that makes it much harder for us to dislike him, despite his contradictory or even hypocritical behavior. I would also agree with Caroline that he might be hesitant to get to emotionally attached to Phoebe because of how much he misses Allie.
ReplyDeleteThis criticism bothered me a little bit too, as if Holden didn't want to be around Phoebe as much when she was being affectionate. I think that this is probably just a projection of Holden being uncomfortable with getting close to people because of things that have happened to him. My reading might be a little more sympathetic (even though like I said, it bothered me at first), but I definitely get where you're coming from with Holden being a bit of a hypocrite!
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden was really just trying to find some way to critique Phoebe. It seems the only person he lets himself see in fully positive light is Jane (and Allie, but since he's dead I believe Holden allows himself to idealize him). Phoebe's critique felt really half-assed to me, but it is also very hypocritical. However, Holden has already been established as a hypocritical person, so are we really surprised?
ReplyDeleteI've never read this as an actual complaint on Holden's part--let alone "beating on" his sister, who, we'll see later, is probably his favorite person in the world right now. Complaining about a little kid being "too affectionate sometimes" is only partly a complaint--she obviously loves Holden, and he's extremely fond of her. It is characteristic that he can find *something* about her that isn't quite right--Holden has turned this into an artform.
ReplyDeleteMy own daughter--who is about Phoebe's age right now, come to think of it--is sometimes "too affectionate," and I'll "complain" while she's hugging me so hard that I can't digest my meal ("C'mon, honey, you're crushing me here!"). But I'm not really complaining. I love it more than I can say.